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  • KODust 106 days ago | parent | on: The PDP-10: history and replica
    It was clearly a very popular machine with users; there was no real business case for producing clones, and yet there were no less than 3 companies that attempted PDP-10 clones -- one of them in the mid 1990's! -- in addition to the one-off clone at Xerox PARC. Ritche and Thompson wanted one at Bell Labs to develop early Unix (and settled for a PDP-11 instead). And DEC threw it completely away in 1983 by stopping development on the successor machines. They could have done one at least more generation, and it would have been at least a modest success and kept some of those users on board the DEC train.
    • ozymandiax 106 days ago
      You have to wonder, what would modern CPUs look like if Thompson and Ritchie had implemented unix on a PDP-10 and that had become the 'normal' for CPUs...
      • larsbrinkhoff 103 days ago
        It's not a given that a "Unix" on a PDP-10 would have taken off like the PDP-11 version did. I believe the success of Unix was partially because it ran on an inexpensive and wildly popular mini.

        Even as a PDP-10 fan, I have to admit that the PDP-10 was not exactly the wave of the future during the 1970s. It had a decent niche and a steadfast following, but sooner or later it would have disappeared in favor of 8-bit byte addressed computers.

        • KODust 102 days ago
          Real alternative history territory here, but one path possible path is that it still have been attractive enough to port to the VAX, and we'd have ended up in roughly same place. Lots of handwaving and assumptions, of course.

          I'm not sure Unix failing to take off would have been bad. It would certainly be a different world.

          • larsbrinkhoff 102 days ago
            Some random thoughts. Writing a timesharing system for a computer with a 16-bit address space forced the Unix philosophy with many small single-purpose programs passing data between them. A timesharing system on a PDP-10 wouldn't have this constraint, and may well not have developed the Unix philosophy. Maybe that would have removed some of the appeal of "Unix-10".

            Second, the VAX grew from the PDP-11 as a 32-bit addressing extension. So porting from the PDP-11 to the VAX is rather natural and easy. In contrast, the PDP-10 is rather different from both the PDP-11 and VAX. Programs written in assembly language will not port over. If Bell labs would have developed a C language for the PDP-10, I wager it would have looked different and not have become popular in an 8-bit byte world.

            • bmonkey325 101 days ago
              Some forget that Unix started out on the pdp-7 which was 18-bit words so in some ways the architecture argument doesn’t really hold up. I think it’s more what machine were they could access.

              https://linfo.org/pdp-7.html#:~:text=The%20PDP-7%20was%20a%2....

              • KODust 101 days ago
                Yes, this is the thing -- it's clear that Ken Thompson valued simplicity, one reason being that he and a couple of other people could maintain the entire thing without a large support organization. Whether that would have survived the PDP-10, I'm not sure. But I suspect it would have have been recognizably Unix.
              • larsbrinkhoff 101 days ago
                PDP-7 Unix is even more cramped with a 12-bit address space per process.
                • bmonkey325 101 days ago
                  This version of Unix was all assembly code and not portable. Once they could move to a better machine I think they realized they didn’t want to write it again in assembly because porting could be difficult.
                  • larsbrinkhoff 101 days ago
                    My argument is that the PDP-7 and PDP-11 possibly forced the Unix philosophy. I don't understand what you are arguing.
          • bmonkey325 102 days ago
            Is this the parallel universe where Mac won and Windows faded into obscurity. Amiga took over gaming and PlayStation and XBox never happened ? .

            Also. Steve Jobs lives…..

            • KODust 101 days ago
              Dave Cutler stayed at DEC, shipped popular workstations built with PRISM chips, Microsoft and IBM kissed and made up and we're all using Windows derived from OS/2 w/Presentation Manager today.
              • bmonkey325 101 days ago
                Put that way. In the hear and now, I realize we are in the darkest timeline.
    • larsbrinkhoff 103 days ago
      Foonly and Systems Concepts seemed to have a decent business, although their customer base was largely restricted to one each: Tymshare and Compuserve, respectively.

      The PARC clones were two-off.

    • KODust 105 days ago
      also http://www.fpgaretrocomputing.org/pdp10x/
  • KODust 112 days ago | parent | on: The first 3dfx card announced 29 years ago, Orchid...
    > The Righteous 3D had mechanical relays that clicked audibly when you were using it

    Interesting! I assume these had something to do with bridging to the 2D graphics card? I found other references on the web to the relays clicking, but not an explanation of what the relays are doing, or how often you'd actually hear them in practice.

  • KODust 115 days ago | parent | on: What I Saw at the Evolution of Plan 9
    Author's website is here

    http://www.collyer.net/who/geoff/

    • benmca 115 days ago
      Bravo. I love jump cut from anti-trump, let’s give Florida’s and Texas back to Mexico, to ipv6 delegation on Comcast biz svcs.
      • MagerValp 114 days ago
        The index page is a wild wild ride, can recommend.
  • KODust 117 days ago | parent | on: Aleph One: open source Marathon
    This was the Mac's answer to Doom back in the day. Huge during Mac LAN parties of the era.
  • KODust 123 days ago | parent | on: SubLogic Flight Simulator
    Seems like practically everybody who had a microcomputer with a disk drive in the early 80's had a version of this and a version of Zork I.
    • bmonkey325 123 days ago
      My experience, in Canada, was that Apple II users had Choplifter and Ultima. Atari 800 users had Star Raiders Zork, C64 users always seemed to have Test Drive and IBM PC owners always had Kings Quest.
  • KODust 123 days ago | parent | on: The MAD Computer Program
    Some good commentary here on the Apple II's BASIC graphics primitives https://github.com/fadden/fdraw/blob/master/docs/manual.md

    quote below from the Lines section ---

    The Applesoft routine isn't quite the same as the standard Bresenham algorithm, because it doesn't move diagonally. Consider a line from (0,0) to (50,10) -- gently sloping down and to the right. The standard algorithm would plot exactly 51 pixels, one in each horizontal position. The "pen" always moves one pixel right, but sometimes also moves down.

    In Applesoft, the "pen" can move either right or down, but can't do both at once. This results in lines that feel thin when near horizontal or vertical, but become thicker as they approach 45 degrees. This reduces performance, because Applesoft draws twice as many pixels for a diagonal line as the basic algorithm. It can also be visually jarring when animated, because lines get very thick when near diagonal.

  • KODust 127 days ago | parent | on: Massive Interview with Steve Jobs from MicroTimes
    This is a fascinating document. This was like a year after Windows 3.1 started eating the PC world, and a year before NeXT threw in the towel on hardware entirely, and approx. three years before the Internet became mainstream.

    John Perry Barlow is the interviewer, very tech savvy, and he seems to have been convinced NeXT had finally figured it all out and was going to make it big in the business world. Didn't really see Windows coming, I guess, or didn't understand that high-end PC hardware would rapidly become cheap enough to make NeXT's hardware irrelevant in that space.

    • bmonkey325 127 days ago
      Unfortunately, it was economies of scale. By 1992, NEXT was only shipping 750 units a month. PCs were shipping about 3 million units a month. Even if NEXT was 100 or 1000 times it would still be small potatoes in the face of the PC market
    • bmonkey325 124 days ago
      Make no mistake I would have loved mass market NExT. Multitasking. Vast memory. Graphics performance only dreamed of in the pc world. Once they started shipping with a HD instead of the optical 20mb cartridge disk jt had everything one would want in a power machine.

      Sigh.

      • KODust 124 days ago
        The optical disk was such a terrible choice. As an option? Sure. As the primary disk for a system reliant — like nothing that came before it — on fast swapping to virtual memory for interactive perf? Yikes.

        (Of course, it was also fundamentally a Unix workstation and still had a lot of rough edges that the classic Mac, for example, didn’t have. And those edges were so rough they didn’t get fully sanded down until approx. Mac OS X 10.2 - 10.4.)

        • bmonkey325 123 days ago
          There was a rumour that I have never been able to validate that Steve Jobs had a shirt with an oversized pocket so he could say the floptical disk would fit in a pocket.

          Forever an urban legend I supose.

  • KODust 128 days ago | parent | on: NetBSD on a JavaStation
    The two things that stunted Java from a creative-projects perspective were (a) nobody built a native (x86 / PowerPC / etc) compiler for it early on and (b) the UI class library was utter garbage.

    (a) People got way too enamored with the runtime possibilities and didn't see the opportunity to replace C++ -- by the mid-90's the serious C++ footguns were certainly widely recognized -- with a better language.

    (b) I still don't know why anyone at Sun thought AWT was acceptable. They literally bought a superior class library from another company and threw it away. And every attempt to fix it became this endless parade of crap grafted on top of AWT.

    • bmonkey325 127 days ago
      AWT known with affection as the Awful Window Toolkit.
    • DaOne256 128 days ago
      (a) I always thought that was unfortunate. Java would have been the perfect successor to C++ with its pleasant syntax and its powerful standard libraries. Perhaps it would have been a good option to disable the garbage collector to avoid performance bottlenecks and interruptions. Or maybe the successor could have been D.

      (b) Interesting, can you tell us more about what this UI library was that Sun bought?

      • KODust 127 days ago
        My memory was that Lighthouse Design had a framework, but this reference says it was _both_ Netscape and Lighthouse Design. There's probably a better history somewhere, but this is the best I can currently find.

        https://java.fandom.com/wiki/Swing

  • KODust 131 days ago | parent | on: Why We Didn’t Take Screen Grabs in the 1980s
    Get a Mac? You could certainly take screenshots on the Mac by the late 1980's.
    • bmonkey325 130 days ago
      Not to be a pedant but I am not sure how a Mac would be able to capture AutoCAD screens running on a PC . AutoCAD for Mac didn’t ship until ‘92.

      The AutoCAD business was interesting. So many gadgets like extended memory cards, math coprocessors, crazy video cards. Anything to give a speed up in rendering and processing.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AutoCAD_version_history

  • KODust 138 days ago | parent | on: Celebrating the 30th Anniversary of Delphi version...
    It's really a shame that Unix ate the world. I've never had a chance to use Pascal in a professional context (other than reading old code) because C/C++ had taken over for OS development by that point.
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