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  • ozymandiax 83 days ago | parent | on: The PDP-10: history and replica
    You have to wonder, what would modern CPUs look like if Thompson and Ritchie had implemented unix on a PDP-10 and that had become the 'normal' for CPUs...
    • larsbrinkhoff 80 days ago
      It's not a given that a "Unix" on a PDP-10 would have taken off like the PDP-11 version did. I believe the success of Unix was partially because it ran on an inexpensive and wildly popular mini.

      Even as a PDP-10 fan, I have to admit that the PDP-10 was not exactly the wave of the future during the 1970s. It had a decent niche and a steadfast following, but sooner or later it would have disappeared in favor of 8-bit byte addressed computers.

      • KODust 80 days ago
        Real alternative history territory here, but one path possible path is that it still have been attractive enough to port to the VAX, and we'd have ended up in roughly same place. Lots of handwaving and assumptions, of course.

        I'm not sure Unix failing to take off would have been bad. It would certainly be a different world.

        • larsbrinkhoff 80 days ago
          Some random thoughts. Writing a timesharing system for a computer with a 16-bit address space forced the Unix philosophy with many small single-purpose programs passing data between them. A timesharing system on a PDP-10 wouldn't have this constraint, and may well not have developed the Unix philosophy. Maybe that would have removed some of the appeal of "Unix-10".

          Second, the VAX grew from the PDP-11 as a 32-bit addressing extension. So porting from the PDP-11 to the VAX is rather natural and easy. In contrast, the PDP-10 is rather different from both the PDP-11 and VAX. Programs written in assembly language will not port over. If Bell labs would have developed a C language for the PDP-10, I wager it would have looked different and not have become popular in an 8-bit byte world.

          • bmonkey325 79 days ago
            Some forget that Unix started out on the pdp-7 which was 18-bit words so in some ways the architecture argument doesn’t really hold up. I think it’s more what machine were they could access.

            https://linfo.org/pdp-7.html#:~:text=The%20PDP-7%20was%20a%2....

            • KODust 79 days ago
              Yes, this is the thing -- it's clear that Ken Thompson valued simplicity, one reason being that he and a couple of other people could maintain the entire thing without a large support organization. Whether that would have survived the PDP-10, I'm not sure. But I suspect it would have have been recognizably Unix.
            • larsbrinkhoff 79 days ago
              PDP-7 Unix is even more cramped with a 12-bit address space per process.
              • bmonkey325 78 days ago
                This version of Unix was all assembly code and not portable. Once they could move to a better machine I think they realized they didn’t want to write it again in assembly because porting could be difficult.
                • larsbrinkhoff 78 days ago
                  My argument is that the PDP-7 and PDP-11 possibly forced the Unix philosophy. I don't understand what you are arguing.
        • bmonkey325 80 days ago
          Is this the parallel universe where Mac won and Windows faded into obscurity. Amiga took over gaming and PlayStation and XBox never happened ? .

          Also. Steve Jobs lives…..

          • KODust 79 days ago
            Dave Cutler stayed at DEC, shipped popular workstations built with PRISM chips, Microsoft and IBM kissed and made up and we're all using Windows derived from OS/2 w/Presentation Manager today.
            • bmonkey325 79 days ago
              Put that way. In the hear and now, I realize we are in the darkest timeline.
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